"Love is just a moment of giving, and marriage is when we admit our parent were probably right."
Billy Bragg
Hands up, if at some point you were against gay marriage and then just found your arguments turning to dust as time went on?
Well that was me. I remember having a vociferous argument with one of my more, let's say pro-hippie, friends while driving through North Dakota sometime in the late nineties. Like much of the Canadian body politic, I argued that marriage was a between a man and a woman because that was how society reproduced itself and blah blah blah. I argued loudly and lost soundly, if tacitly. It took the Supreme Court of Canada legalizing same-sex marriage back in 2005 to make me see that it's not courageous for a majority to stand against the rights of a minority; its cowardice. It took that change to demonstrate to me that former Prime Minister Pierre Elliot Trudeau's statement, "There's no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation" is a governing philosophy that conservatives and liberals can endorse. So be you American or French or a Supreme Court Justice; it's time to evolve.
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You're a good man, Jeffen.
ReplyDeleteWhy, thanks.
DeleteThe party of deviates, degenerates & parasites continues to prattle on...
ReplyDeleteMarriage IS "one man & one woman" (please check Black's Law Dictionary).
The law used to say that slavery was legal. The law used to make 'miscegenation' was illegal. Educated societies learn and change, ignorant people yell insults and run away.
DeleteMarriage certainly does go outside the bedroom, particularly in the areas of pensions, health coverage, probate, tax breaks, bank loans, etc. but that's only part of what this is about. This is about denying rights to any specific group or race that the rest of the citizens enjoy and take for granted. Any semi-democratic government really has no right imposing sanctions or restrictions on any citizen based solely on their sexual preference. I won't even go into the discrimination gays face on a daily basis.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad to see you changed your mind. For me, that means that good people and rational thought still reside in this world. Change can many times be a very good thing.
Agreed it goes far beyond the bedroom but seeing that principal helped me to get to the point where I could understand the legal side of things. I saw a study that revealed that 33% of people who say they support gay marriage say they have atone point changed their mind. There's a lot of us 'evolvers' out there.
DeleteThanks for the feedback.
Years ago I argued with my bro-in-law about gay marriage. We went around and around for about 45 minutes, with me easily negating his paltry arguments against it. Finally, he admitted that maybe he was just homophobic. This was an 'a-ha!' moment, but sincere, so I was as honest back to him as he had been: I admitted that I, too, am somewhat homophobic; the difference between he and I, I told him, was that he was willing to deny someone he didn't understand their civil rights, and I wasn't. I also don't 'get' the human tendency to form groups like religions, frats, cliques, etc -- but I'd never try and deny those kinds of folks their rights, either. And this basically sums up a huge problem of the Republican party, and conservatives in general: they lack an ability to imagine anyone else's situation (sexuality, racism, poverty), and therefore empathize. Many have complimented the sole Republican US Senator who recently changed his mind and came out in support of gay marriage, but he admits it's because his son came out to him. So, he didn't change his mind by empathizing with his fellow Americans who happen to have been born the way they are -- he changed his mind cuz it affected a loved one personally. That's nice of him, but so totally arbitrary that it's scary.
ReplyDeleteAnd, to Evil Rev: This book you reference, like the Bible you likely think monopolizes The Truth, was written by these animals called human beings. These crazy beasts are capable of incredible grace and beauty, but their words and thoughts are mere inventions. They don't really mean anything in the big picture, and are just temporary social interactions with their fellow humans. They're mutable. Evolvable. Relative.
C in California
C
ReplyDeleteI think a lot of us who've been convinced by reason are a little saddened by the fact that many of the people coming around on the issue now are doing so solely because they see it can effect richer people like themselves. While it gives us hope on this issue, it doesn't bode well for the likelihood of ending things like the drug war.
Thanks for the thoughtful comment, by the way.
Good words jeffen. It's the 21st century, people, get with it. Looks like you'll always have one follower here- Evil Rev.
ReplyDeleteI love how he always says "talk about music' but only comments when I talk about politics!
Deletehey, where's that deviant degenerate party? i don't want to miss it, because hanging out with a bunch of tight-lipped, miserable bigots with sticks up their asses is a real fucking drag.
ReplyDeletei'm 45. i knew i was a freak long before i figured out i was queer or ever heard any punk rock. getting to know other freaks was revelatory, whether they were considered outsiders because of their sexual attractions, the music they played, or because some collection of upstanding citizens decided they had to hate them based on some other bullshit metric. being queer meant a lot of punks automatically rejected you. being into punk got you nowhere among much of the homo crowd. those things really fucking sucked when i was a kid. being an outsider who found groups of similar outsiders, you'd immediately think, "hey, you're like me, here's what i have to offer!" and then the stony stares got whipped out, the "fag" comments would fly, and you'd either end up in some shit bar listening to dance music or taking way more than your share of 'accidental' elbows and boots while you were in the pit.
thankfully that was what seemed to be the case at first and second glance, but then i found out there were lots of sensible, pro-homo punks, and queers into punk and metal and industrial and every other kind of music. people in marginalised communities should know better, but often what we do, instinctively, is immediately marginalise others, outside our group and inside our group. it's irritating, but as a self-preservation mechanism, it's understandable. the trick is shutting down our obnoxious lizard brains long enough to escape the trap.
don't like same-sex marriage? don't marry someone of the same sex. it's that simple. if you want to talk loud and long about who i want to marry or fuck or hold hands with, you'd better fucking expect that i'm going through your life with a fine-toothed comb and pointing out, loudly and publicly, everything i don't like. it's cliche now that the most strident opponents of equality are scumbags who have had two or more divorces, left dying spouses to go bone younger, fresher models, and guys who get caught sucking cock in airport washrooms.
marriage, that grand tradition, that contract that has changed and evolved constantly and never in history meant the same thing across time or cultures, that sacred goatswap which primarily serves to more deeply entrench tribal relationships and perpetuate the power structure of societies - that dynastic emblem, more powerful a union than any other in the sight of your gods, and it's threatened with extinction by two dicks or two clits getting together? if that's the case, your dreams, power and imagination are so weak, corrupt and bankrupt that nothing can possibly save them. give up, turn to dust, and those of us who aren't such goddamned delicate, fainting creatures of ash and shadow will gladly take over.
oh yeah, since this a music blog: i remember the guys (and it almost always was guys) who were homophobic in the punk scene. they tended toward the fratboy demographic, people i had no time for anyway, and were into dipshit bands that followed a cookie-cutter formula toward music and appearance. the other demo included the straight-edge guys, and while we could occasionally talk music, the fact that they never seemed to find any joy in life got on my nerves. yeah, i know there are plenty of straight-edge people who don't fit that description, but specific to homophobia and other prejudices, that was the situation.
ReplyDeletegood on you for sorting it out yourself, jeffen, and for saying so. most of us have ignorant reactionary impulses and beliefs, and challenging them is what we're supposed to do, not use them as the walls that support our lives. ideally we should take apart our own preconceptions as much as possible - any time i find myself in agreement with the catholic fucking church or a bunch of leering business-suits, i know it's time to step back and examine the problem. sometimes greater society makes progress, and it's wise and decent to extend a wave and a smile then. sometimes you find you've fucked up, and then you sort it out and move forward.
Postbear,
DeleteSorry it took me a while to get back here and absorb your two comments.
Your anger is well-founded and I can only hope these homophobes in the church, the state or up on the stage either evolve or go extinct!